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 Post subject: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 13:17 
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.....for NOT joining in with the standing ovation at the Council House on Tuesday in honour of local soldier Cpl Croucher and his George Cross?

According to the Birmingham Mail there is a storm brewing. And on her own website Salma Yaqoob sees it differently.

Perhaps the councillors who read this can tell us why they stayed seated (well we have heard that) or instead joined in the applause?

I am uncomfortable either way. Part of me thinks we should honour brave soldiers who protect our fellow countrymen in battle and ourselves. But another part of me opposes a war that has resulted in the death of children and people who just want to feed themselves without strife and a war that just creates more hatred towards this nation. I doubt most councillors would understand those of us who have stories from affected relatives belonging to the wider region.

Because Croucher was serving his orders I think he should be respected. Would I have stood up? Probably. But not without a heavy heart and some anger at the lack of support for the innocents killed by our guns.

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Last edited by YahyaMKhan on 03 Feb 2011, 13:41, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 13:31 
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YahyaMKhan wrote:
.....for NOT joining in with the standing ovation at the Council House on Tuesday in honour of local soldier Cpl Croucher and his George Cross?

According to the Birmingham Mail there is a storm brewing. And on her own website Salma Yaqoob sees it differently.

Perhaps the councillors who read this can tell us why they stayed seated or joined in the applause?


From my vantage point in the Council Chamber, only two Councillors sat during the standing ovation - sitting there cross-armed and looking annoyingly straight ahead - those were Cllr Salma Yaqoob and Cllr Ishtiaq.

I stood and applauded, since here was a soldier who had put his life on the line for his colleagues - he threw himself on an exploding grenade to save his comrades - for which he was awarded the George Cross.

It was petty and disrespectful of both Councillors to sit there, with their backs to this soldier, while the rest of the Council Chamber showed their respects.


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 13:47 
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Division is what Respect thrives on. The election is approaching so we can be sure that this won't be their last stunt before May.

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 13:55 
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martinmullaney wrote:
It was petty and disrespectful of both Councillors to sit there, with their backs to this soldier, while the rest of the Council Chamber showed their respects.
So do you think Yaqoob is being insincere when she states: "I have every sympathy with Lance Corporal Croucher and all his comrades serving in Afghanistan. Indeed, I have spoken out before now on the disgraceful lack of support that returning soldiers receive from the very governments that sent them to war (including on BBC's Question Time)."?

And what do you think when states, "But I refuse to stand with those politicians who lack the moral courage to question sending our soldiers to lose lives and limbs in a war that they know cannot be won. "?

I have already stated that we should honour this man. But as a politician what do you understand of the terrible worry some of us have when our relatives sacrifice themselves in the wider conflict on a daily basis?

Dominator wrote:
Division is what Respect thrives on. The election is approaching so we can be sure that this won't be their last stunt before May.
Surely that is true of all politics and politicians and why some of us do not vote?

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 14:04 
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Inconsistent, either our boys are donkeys led by lions, which has been oft state dby her and Galloway, in which case she has no need to sit, or our boys are murderous mercenaries in an illegal war or should object conciencoulsy, which she dosent often say and she should sit.

She (he) cant run with the hares and the hounds.

This is a stunt, a cheap stunt. and incocnsistent, had she not come on QT and told us how brave 'our boys' are i could have stomached this nonsense.

Either way RESPECT will win again, in Sparkbrook. So there was no need.


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 14:06 
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Just read the statement on her Website.

I agree with everything she says.

We need more more politicians with her courage.


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 14:11 
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Her blog blog post, or is it GErs, would make sense if wars could be started and stopped by Birmingham City COuncil, until that is that case, i will say she is inconsistent, ill refrain from calling her a hypocrite for now.


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 14:32 
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YahyaMKhan wrote:
And what do you think when states, "But I refuse to stand with those politicians who lack the moral courage to question sending our soldiers to lose lives and limbs in a war that they know cannot be won. "?

Given that I would have stood and have also publicly questioned the current strategy that is an argument that does not work.


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 14:48 
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For the first time in my 36-year career in journalism I felt compelled to break with the convention that reporters do not show support for one side or another in council meetings by standing and applauding this brave soldier. Salma's sit-down response was entirely predictable. Paradoxically, had she stood and applauded the story would have been even better - "Stop the war Coalition leader and Respect chair applauds Afghan war hero.....".
She would have rightly been condemned as a hypocrite.
I agree entirely with the editorial column in today's Birmingham Mail, which makes the point that Salma was able to behave in the way she did because people like Matt Croucher have over the years fought to ensure that a very wide measure of free speech "exists in this country.
Voltaire's dictum - "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" - must continue to underpin democracy in any civilised country.

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 14:51 
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One thing for sure we will leave Afghanistan soon and will have achieved
nothing and hundreds of our soldiers will have died for nothing.

Lets not forget the tens of thousands of Afghan people many innocent civilians
including large numbers of women and children who have died or been maimed
with life changing injures.

We don't seem to have any honours or medals for the innocence victims of
this war but as usual we can always ease our conscious and dismiss this as
acceptable "collateral damage".

War is always wrong what ever side you support.

I say bring the troops home sooner rather than later.


Last edited by barnardhobbit on 03 Feb 2011, 15:30, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 15:21 
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barnardhobbit wrote:
I say bring the troupes home sooner rather than later.

Clever misspelling. Deliberate?

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 15:29 
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YahyaMKhan wrote:
So do you think Yaqoob is being insincere when she states: "I have every sympathy with Lance Corporal Croucher and all his comrades serving in Afghanistan. Indeed, I have spoken out before now on the disgraceful lack of support that returning soldiers receive from the very governments that sent them to war (including on BBC's Question Time)."?


Both George Galloway and Salma Yaqoob have talked about the British soldiers being "lions led by donkeys". If they truly believe that to be the case, then they should be prepared to applaud British soldiers for doing their duty.

Remember, Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher has not been awarded a George Cross for killing the Taliban, but for risking his life to save his comrades by lying on top of an exploding grenade.

I can only assume that if one of the failed 21/7 London suicide bombers had been in the Council Chamber last Tuesday, Cllr Yaqoob would have been demanding the Council applaud the failed suicide bomber for their past 'heroic actions'.


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 15:31 
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Paul Dale wrote:
Paradoxically, had she stood and applauded the story would have been even better - "Stop the war Coalition leader and Respect chair applauds Afghan war hero.....".
She would have rightly been condemned as a hypocrite.
So are you saying she was damned either way?

barnardhobbit wrote:
We don't seem to have any honours or medals for the innocence victims of
this war but as usual we can always ease our conscious and dismiss this as
acceptable "collateral damage".
I think this is what most do not understand. We now live in a globalised society and cannot ignore our wider responsibilities when we go to war against other nations like we used to. There are consequences to all actions and if the chamber had considered a minute silence for all the war dead in this instance then perhaps there would not have been any headlines.

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 15:33 
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Dominator wrote:
barnardhobbit wrote:
I say bring the troupes home sooner rather than later.

Clever misspelling. Deliberate?
No it was my spelling checker that spelt it that way - So for troupes read Troops


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 15:38 
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Paul Dale wrote:
Paradoxically, had she stood and applauded the story would have been even better - "Stop the war Coalition leader and Respect chair applauds Afghan war hero.....".
She would have rightly been condemned as a hypocrite.


That depends upon what the applause implies. You can recognise the bravery of an individual without agreeing that the war itself was right.


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 15:39 
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martinmullaney wrote:
Remember, Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher has not been awarded a George Cross for killing the Taliban, but for risking his life to save his comrades by lying on top of an exploding grenade.
I understand this and is one reason why I would have applauded but you have not considered what some will clearly view as bias against the innocent war dead and those who have given their lives through similarly courageous acts like a child saving her siblings from a burning building or the sacrifice of hunger, displacement and loss of dignity. I think Yaqoob should have stood up, but I also understand her internal conflict. This is much more complex than merely snubbing a war hero.

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 15:45 
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barnardhobbit wrote:
One thing for sure we will leave Afghanistan soon and will have achieved
nothing and hundreds of our soldiers will have died for nothing.

Lets not forget the tens of thousands of Afghan people many innocent civilians
including large numbers of women and children who have died or been maimed
with life changing injures.

We don't seem to have any honours or medals for the innocence victims of
this war but as usual we can always ease our conscious and dismiss this as
acceptable "collateral damage".

War is always wrong what ever side you support.

I say bring the troops home sooner rather than later.



Totally agree...and yes I must admit how does a politician who is fervently against a war show any applause for individuals or collective actions.. its a difficult one to balance surely.


Last edited by Beefheart on 03 Feb 2011, 15:48, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 15:46 
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martinmullaney wrote:
YahyaMKhan wrote:
So do you think Yaqoob is being insincere when she states: "I have every sympathy with Lance Corporal Croucher and all his comrades serving in Afghanistan. Indeed, I have spoken out before now on the disgraceful lack of support that returning soldiers receive from the very governments that sent them to war (including on BBC's Question Time)."?


Both George Galloway and Salma Yaqoob have talked about the British soldiers being "lions led by donkeys". If they truly believe that to be the case, then they should be prepared to applaud British soldiers for doing their duty.

Remember, Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher has not been awarded a George Cross for killing the Taliban, but for risking his life to save his comrades by lying on top of an exploding grenade.

I can only assume that if one of the failed 21/7 London suicide bombers had been in the Council Chamber last Tuesday, Cllr Yaqoob would have been demanding the Council applaud the failed suicide bomber for their past 'heroic actions'.



OH come on MM...thats stretching it.... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 15:47 
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YahyaMKhan wrote:
There are consequences to all actions and if the chamber had considered a minute silence for all the war dead in this instance then perhaps there would not have been any headlines.


Isn't this exactly what Remembrance Sunday is for?


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 15:52 
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Beefheart wrote:
martinmullaney wrote:
YahyaMKhan wrote:
So do you think Yaqoob is being insincere when she states: "I have every sympathy with Lance Corporal Croucher and all his comrades serving in Afghanistan. Indeed, I have spoken out before now on the disgraceful lack of support that returning soldiers receive from the very governments that sent them to war (including on BBC's Question Time)."?


Both George Galloway and Salma Yaqoob have talked about the British soldiers being "lions led by donkeys". If they truly believe that to be the case, then they should be prepared to applaud British soldiers for doing their duty.

Remember, Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher has not been awarded a George Cross for killing the Taliban, but for risking his life to save his comrades by lying on top of an exploding grenade.

I can only assume that if one of the failed 21/7 London suicide bombers had been in the Council Chamber last Tuesday, Cllr Yaqoob would have been demanding the Council applaud the failed suicide bomber for their past 'heroic actions'.



OH come on MM...thats stretching it.... ;)


not really. What we saw in the Council Chamber last Tuesday was the true face of Cllr Yaqoob. Remember this is someone who wrote glowingly of the benefits of Britain becoming an Islamic Republic - see http://www.hurryupharry.org/wp-content/ ... lama_y.pdf

{EDITED - A statement has been deleted from this post as it is considered unacceptable
we all know what you think about Salma Yaqoob we have all heard it before but to make
such claims as you have here is a step too far. Another BCC councillor got into a lot of
problems by making a similar on-line statement}


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 15:54 
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martinmullaney wrote:
Isn't this exactly what Remembrance Sunday is for?
I am not saying we should, but why not apply that argument to LC Croucher then? Do you honestly think the dead and injured children of Afghanistan and Pakistan are included in our annual war memorial services?

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 16:00 
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martinmullaney wrote:
You have used this quote before. I might be wrong, but do you think Yaqoob is going to misspell her own surname as Yakub? This looks like a scurrilous attempt by someone at impersonation. Or it is just someone else since Salma is a common girls name? Has she been asked or has it been confirmed if this was of her doing?

Here is just one "Salma Yakub" on Faceless

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 16:22 
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Has Salma ever denied writing that? It's certainly a similar writing style to that which she uses.

I don't think there is a story if Salma stands up. It isn't hypocritical.

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 16:26 
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Dominator wrote:
Has Salma ever denied writing that? It's certainly a similar writing style to that which she uses.
Styles can be copied. "Yakub" would be a major faux pas. Perhaps she used to spell it that way as a student. Did a certain Foreign Secretary not advocate hanging during his Oxbridge days?

Dominator wrote:
I don't think there is a story if Salma stands up. It isn't hypocritical.
Tend to agree but your response does not investigate the complex issues behind her choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 18:17 
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martinmullaney wrote:
I can only assume that if one of the failed 21/7 London suicide bombers had been in the Council Chamber last Tuesday, Cllr Yaqoob would have been demanding the Council applaud the failed suicide bomber for their past 'heroic actions'.

Quote:
{EDITED - A statement has been deleted from this post as it is considered unacceptable
we all know what you think about Salma Yaqoob we have all heard it before but to make
such claims as you have here is a step too far. Another BCC councillor got into a lot of
problems by making a similar on-line statement}

:o Just proves what foolish man you are Martin!!! Admin: should of left it up...


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 19:56 
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I joined in the applause.

I do not believe that our troops should have been sent to do what they're doing and I want them to come home but I do respect the act of a person who is prepared to act in such a brave manner in order to save the life of others at the risk of his own.

Just because I don't agree with the war does not mean I can not respect the actions of an individual involved in that war.


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 20:26 
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oh well the Daily Mail got hold of it and unliek the Evening Mail just had to put the tag line 'muslim' on it

Don't we live in a free country ?

No one should be forced to stand for anything if they do not want to that is freedom to do what you like

we should not live in a shame culture, I had no respect for Diana a glorified clothes horese, so when we had a minutes silence for her at work, I went outside, lit a fag and chatted to at least 20 others who cared as less as I did, was I wrong then ?

I have the minutes silence for remeberance day and quiet for that


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 20:32 
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Emily the difference is you are not the Leader of the Respect Party and head of Birmingham’s Stop the War Coalition.

The reports say that there was 100 councillors in the council chamber but there are 120 councillors so where was the others ?

This was not on the agenda and Cllr Mohammed Ishtiaq is quoted as saying

'We had no idea that there would be a standing ovation. It was announced at the start of the meeting.

'We were caught unaware but we decided we did not wish to take part.

'We acknowledged Matt Croucher by nodding and smiling in his direction which I think he appreciated.

'We were protesting against the other politicians not against Matt.'

'He is a hero for what he did but he, like many other young men and women, are in a war which is based on a pack of lies.'

Maybe if the Respect Councillors had know before hand they could have chosen not to be in the chamber as other councillors
had done although I guess not for that reason.

As Paul Dale has said "She (they) would have rightly been condemned as a hypocrites if they had applauded a Afghan war hero"

What ever way you look at it they were put on the spot whether that was deliberate or not is debatable.


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 21:29 
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barnardhobbit wrote:
'He is a hero for what he did but he, like many other young men and women, are in a war which is based on a pack of lies.'


The Afghanistan War is 'based on a pack of lies'?

Is Councillor Ishtiaq getting his countries mixed up. I accept that it is reasonable to say that the invasion of Iraq was based on a pack of lies. I also accept that the strategy of a land based war against the Taliban in Afghanistan by the NATO troops is debatable. However, I am not aware of any "lies" that lead us into Afghanistan. Unless Cllr Ishtiaq is implying that the 9/11 attacks - which led to the invasion of Afghanistan - was a Jewish conspiracy. Is this what he is really saying?


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 Post subject: Re: Were Yaqoob and Ishtiaq Disloyal & Unpatriotic.....
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 21:30 
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ianrobo wrote:
No one should be forced to stand for anything if they do not want to that is freedom to do what you like

we should not live in a shame culture, I had no respect for Diana a glorified clothes horese, so when we had a minutes silence for her at work, I went outside, lit a fag and chatted to at least 20 others who cared as less as I did, was I wrong then?


OK, a bloke saves his mates lives by diving on top of a grenade. Is there anyone on this board that would do that?

Isn't this about celebrating the act of bravery rather than the politics of it all? If you can't seperate the two then I really feel sorry for you Ian.

And comparing this with the reaction to the 'Peoples Princess' is one of most ridiculous things you've ever written, and there's some strong competition.


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