Re~Stirred Forum

The Chief Constable has defended the plan to use private firms to operate some of the functions being done by the force.

He says the Home Office are backing the scheme. He spoke after attending the 'confidential' meeting with potential private providers. He is reported as having indicated that his force does not have enough money to improve services to the public, if so where will the money come from to allow private firms to improve service. He says that, " the objective of joint working with the private sector is to be more efficient and effective.

Since the Chief Consatble's position is a managerial, administrative position it would make sense to replace him with a professional manager or Chief Executive.

what will the chief Constable do if a labour persons wins the contest and cancels this, does he have a plan B ?

Given the initial reporting by Tom Windsor, one of the potential areas for a private contractor to consider would be providing fitness training to Police Officers as Mr. Windsor proposes that officers must undertake a yearly fitness test if they fail it three times they could have their pay docked by up to £3000 and ultimately sacked. He also recommends that recruits need to be better educated.

He also wishes to make policing a profession rather than a job.

I've yet to read the Winsor Report and have only seen the initial BBC report.

Gerry you gave your view of Winsor's work:

Sorry, that is not what Winsor has been tasked to do; everything that has happened in policing in the last decade or so has made policing just another job, whatever ACPO say.

Link to the Winsor Report:http://review.police.uk/

My comment is based on the first media coverage of the report, they have interpreted that there should be a minimum academic qualification to join the police and a new graduate entry scheme at Inspector level, some 80 post per year and that the job of a police officer should become a professional position rather than a job.

I look forward to your analysis of the report and to the finer points of change that are within it.

I understand that there is Police Authority meeting at Llyod house 10 am on the 22 March.

The WMP's Deputy Chief Constable's irregular blog has a lengthy commentary on the issue:

Link:http://dccdavethompson.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/private-sector-partnering-crime-reduction-and-gangs/

The 'Police Activities Glossary' is on:http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2012/mar/02/contract-note-bidders-police-services

The author is heading now behind EU contract law, an issue I doubt he or anyone here is an expert on. It would be interesting to know if others police authorities, notably Lincolnshire, used the same 'Glossary' when they privatised functions.

Since The Guardian's original story was based on a "leaked" document I was not surprised to find no other references in a Google search on 'Police Activities Glossary' and contracts.

I was startled to read on Thursday press headlines about obesity in the police, citing figures for London, that simply didn't ring true. So for now I will stick today with Winsor on obesity.

In inspired writing style the Evening Standard, under a headline 'Police face the sack for being fat' refers to:

Link:http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/london/police-face-the-sack-for-being-fat-7573651.html?origin=internalSearch

The Winsor Report Part 2 Section 5.1.56 says: and the Evening Standard refers to what appears to be detailed data for the Met :

Strange I thought and a search on comments found this:

Similar information on:http://www.metfed.org.uk/news?id=1676

So the Winsor Report's data on obesity is based on a tiny sample of Met officers and staff who voluntarily attended a health clinic due to their concerns over obesity. That's right people who identified they had a problem and sought help. I shall leave aside whether those tested consented to their personal medical information being released in an aggregate format to the Winsor enquiry.

Locally I discovered WMP has previously offered "stay healthy" sessions to all officers and staff, which included a full medical examination by a nurse. Secondly some are required to attend for a session with the force's (contracted) doctors after injuries at work, as part of a return to work process - which does not include a full medical examination.

At one stage, within the last eight years, many stations had small fitness rooms, with gym equipment which was privately funded and then they started to disappear. Further back participation in force sport could be in work time, that too went - rightly I think.

Bad data to base a conclusion on.

Yes police officers should be fit for the role they are in, an annual test seems sensible and should be for all ranks - conducted openly and because of the pressures independently conducted. Have a peek at the standard test in New Zealand, taken by a reporter:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxAwtx6U58I

Tom Winsor the man who ran Railtrack, is no fit person to comment on the police.

Why on earth, the tories the so called law and order party determined to attack the police so much who should be allies of theirs ?

Is there a wider tory agenda I am missing in this ?

Yes. David Cameron is actually a 'Manchurian candidate'. The Martians have planted him here so he can strategically weaken our defences to facilitate a Martian invasion. Any Minute Now.

I was under the impression that there were annual fitness tests for police officers. It is a job where you would have to be relatively fit and agile, so it would make sense....

Tom Winsor was the Rail Regulator appointed by Government - who oversaw both Railtrack and Network Rail. Didn't actually run them (though some folk in the rail industry at the time may think otherwise).

In his position he could have ran it but he made things worse didn't he ?

fact he has used dodgy stats to back up his argument says it all

Just a reminder, the West Midlands Police Authority will be holding a meeting in public on the 22 March at Llyod House, starting at 10am.

They will be covering in the meeting an update on Partnership working (privatisation?).

In the press coverage last week one paper summarised the Winsor Report, Part Two as, with my quick comments in italics:

In searching a police blog I found this short response by the Surrey Police Federation, which makes some powerful points, so here is a selection:

Morale boosting that chap Winsor.

'Never volunteer for anything seems to be his motto too:

Link:http://www.surreypf.co.uk/uploads/Winsor%20Part%202.pdf

I've not overlooked that Surrey Police are WMP's partner in the privatisation scoping exercise.

Little I have read in the Winsor Report, Part Two addresses the problems modern policing faces: ineffective courts, bureaucracy, lack of leadership, poor management, motivating staff (officers & police staff) to do more, not less and more.

Instead we have a report that diminishes policing. Cut the cost being first and not guaranteed either. Who would want to join such a profession?

My understanding is that the Labour group on the West Mids Police Authority voted against the plans to privatise bits of our police service. There are serious concerns over the value of outsourcing and with the back office costs being fixed under the contract, any further cuts brought in by this government would have to come from the front line service.

Theresa May has supported the position of the Chief Constable, praising the innovative proposals in the West Midlands.

Maybe we could persuade criminals, for a cash payment, to arrest themselves, administer a caution, interview themselves, detain themselves and if willing put themselves through the courts.

In the comedy film Brazil, they applied an interesting approach to accused people by charging them for their arrest and for their interrogation.

Although we have a £15 victim surcharge, we could go one step further and bankrupt every convicted person by charging them the full cost of investigation, trial and imprisonment.

We could scrap all Criminal Legal aid for a start, that would be a saving.

John,

I am sure at least two members of this blogsite were at the WMPA meeting in 2011 that sanctioned going ahead with the joint study between WMP and Surrey, with the Home Office in attendance. Yes there were comments by a variety of members. There was no vote against the proposal.

Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-17455251

Shame he is only saying this in public (my assumption) now he's leaving.

Locally the connection is that his force has already gone down the privatisation route.

but the study was done and the OK was to go ahead with the tender and I know all labour members voted against it and of course no tender will be approved until the police comissoner is elected.

John,

My apologies for posting a reply earlier:

I now have read the Minutes 5th January 2012, which have a lengthy section on the debate the Authority had and it shows that:

Link:http://www.west-midlands-pa.gov.uk/documents/committees/public/2012/01_PolAuth_22March2012_Minutes_of_05_Jan2012.pdf

More on today's WMP Authority meeting later today.

Look forward to Bunnyson's update.

Interesting that Councillor Yvonne Mosquito declared an interest in the section on PCC, along with Cllr. Bob Jones.

Therfore it is beyond, I guess, no reasonable doubt, that she is now in the running for the Labour nomination for PCC.

As for privatisation, it would appear that everything is now up for grabs, other than the functions that are specified by statute to be undertaken by a warranted officer.

Not the most interesting meeting, although many members of the public attending until the private agenda was reached.

So a few points I noted:

1) Short discussion around the protocols for the Police Commissioner election; members of the Authority can remain as members until formal nomination papers are submitted a month before the election.
2) The Feeling The Difference (FTD) opinion polling conducted was being changed, but oddly WMP had not asked the official guardian for statistics (ONS) to review the details - which was suggested by an independent member.
3) It appears that the polling details are not published or shown on a website. In the Chief Constable's Report are these upbeat results (edited): I noted nothing was said how many people responded to the polling.
4) There was a report on Priority Based Budgeting or cost reduction and I was stunned that no-one noticed one pie illustration didn't add up to 100%. A 19% error does not build confidence and trust in WMP / WMPA.
5) To achieve cost cutting compulsory redundancy before September 2012 for eighty one staff.
6) WMP still insist front-line policing is largely unaffected and crime is down 10%.
7) Privatisation was an issue raised, partly as a question via letter was discussed; WMP stressed the media reaction recently was wrong, but the Authority appeared not to want another debate and especially as the Police Commissioner would have to make the final choice.

Amidst all the figures there is no mention of the overall changes in police and police staff numbers, whether in role (front-line or visible, specialist, middle office and back office) or location (local policing and HQ).

Unaffected? Like:

Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17420597

A few weeks ago there were reports on visible officers performing office roles. How about an officer who had been a member of police staff, working in a front office and has now been posted back to his old role to "backfill" staff who have left?

On the private agenda was an item on negotiations between B'ham Airport (BHX) and WMP. BHX management have long been known locally to have the police presence reduced, which they pay for (except for certain roles) and have sought alternative police providers, who can provide armed police. For remaining calls for policing BHX would call WMP.

As usual Bunnyson, precise and to the point, when will your nomination for PCC go in.

As for mathematical ability at the authority page 2, appendix 11, Independent Member Appointments, report, the numbers in the grid add up in columns to the figure given but not in the rows?

That is a classic. Attention to detail appears to be missing, perhaps WMPA need a calculator?

On Tuesday Chris Sims appeared before the Leveson Inquiry, which was given a mention in this BBC report:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17443067

In a free paper for Solihull there is a story 'Force investigating leaks to the media, inquiry told', fifteen leaks, although no evidence found for ten; this is not mentioned by the BBC. Go to the latest edition and forward to page three:http://www.solihullobserver.co.uk/paper/

A story in the BBC, based on a Police Federation statement / interview, which starts with:

Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17446219

This leaves aside the view amongst some observers that disciplinary hearings are taking a harsh stance, sacking staff who previously would not have been treated that way.

Bunnyson, the reference to some feeling that police personnel subject to disciplinary hearings being sacked, where previously they might not.

Is there any evidence to indicate that disciplinary decisions are now non proportionate and harsh, or is it that in previous years police personnel were treated leniently?

The Birmingham Mail covers on page 2 today a cut of £240,000 to the Anti Gang Unit the cuts were worrying but now they are in line to really start reducing effective policing.

The Police Authority have stated that compulsory were almost inevitable, PCC candidate Bob Jones must accept some responsibility for this situation.

Officers will know by the end of June if they no longer have a job in September.

I find it a disgusting state of affairs that officers risking their lives and risking injury, to protect us go on duty not knowing if in the summer their bravery will be rewarded by a P45.

In late March 2012 WMP published the last printed edition of 'News Beat' and in the centre spread is an article 'How can the police work with a business partner'. The article has five small pictures to illustrate the concepts and can be viewed on-line in the archive edition, scroll to pages 8-9:http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1w5zy/NewsBeatMarch2012/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A%2F%2Ffree.yudu.com%2Fitem%2Fdetails%2F498313%2FNews-Beat---March-2012%3Frefid%3D83508

When you learn that WMP has used an artist to observe senior management meetings to gain inspiration for the pictures one begins to wonder about WMP's priorities. Apparently Warwickshire Police have in the past used an artist for this purpose.

WMP's Chief Constabe, Chris Sims, is now touring police buildings to present this vision of the future to police staff and police officers - where some are startled by the five pictures used to illustrate the vision. Plus answering concerns over known, failing equipment that there is no money and perhaps in a couple of years private provision will help. Apparently he makes a effusive reference to a consortium formed by G4S, Accenture and Dell.

One wonders does WMP have an in-house artist or have they paid for an artist on contract?

Birmingham Post has covered the possibility of West Midlands Police being in a situation of having wasted £5 million if the Police and Crime Commissioner does not go down the path of privatisation.
How many officers does this equate to?

I would have preferred to have had a significant rise in the police precept if it meant that we kept experienced officers on the payroll.

My understanding is that only officers who have done 30 years service are expected to leave under the A19 process. Those officers know who they are.