Re~Stirred Forum

What on earth do parents think they are doing, when they respond like this, we know there are fashions with kids but at school this should be left behind at the school gate.
Its quite clear the school has a school uniform so why would you allow your kids to attend not in it giving the school no other option but to send children home.

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top- ... s:20120906

Trojax

Absolutely disgusting, sending children home because their footwear doesn't fit in with one person's idea of what children should wear.

The idea of a uniform is nothing more than an excuse for places like this to affirm an unnecessary authority and crush any form of self expression, for a performing arts school this is quite a leap of hypocrisy.

They should look to their priorities and ask whether or not a child's clothing takes priority over teaching.

Sack the head immediately and appoint someone without draconian tendencies, concentrate on providing the children with a voice rather than crushing them at the gates.

Everybody knows that slovenly standards around uniform correlate with poor behaviour and discipline in general. Well done to the headmaster. Protesting about a uniform is bad enough. Throwing objects at teachers is a complete disgrace. What lowlives. Maybe some of these parents should be sent back to school.

No "Jamie" - they need to assume their responsibilities in loco parentis and not send pupils home without knowledge that a parent can take care of the child. Once they have established that alternative arrangements can be made should they remove the child from the school.

The rights and wrongs of freedom of expression are somewhat secondary here I suggest?

No No Jamie I could not disagree more we all have to abide to rules in this world and if we decide to break the rules we must accept the consequences no matter how little the rule or how silly we feel it is.

What is disgusting is that parents and children decided to lay siege to the school and attack teachers with eggs, as what does this show the kids for later life.

Trojax

one parent said “I’ve just gone to Asda to buy him a new pair of shoes.” thats what you should have done when you got your letter from the head and not decided to ignore it

No they don't. Common knowledge is no knowledge at all and poor behaviour and discipline occur in all schools irrespective of uniform or not.

A headteacher sending children away is failing in their primary duty which is to look after the children's welfare and concentrate on teaching them about the world.



This isn't a 'rule' of the world, it is a petty concern that has divided the pupils and parents from the school from its first day. We are not living in Victorian Britain, this is the 21st Century and should have learned by now that people should be judged on the content of their character, not by how they look. School uniforms are elitist and unnecessary, an outdated reminder of just how much like prisons some schools can be.

well there is more choice now , for parents re-where to send their children, to receive an education. which means if parents object to School Uniforms, they could chose a School with a no uniform rule.
In saying that there was a letter given in plenty of time for all the children , to have been kitted out properly for school. The lesson taught to the children at Castle Vale Performing Arts College,by some parents was if you disagree with certain rules of the school, don't follow them, protest, insult your teachers,then assault them using eggs to throw at them.
Well good luck to those parents, when it comes time for their kids to attend job interviews, because I have no doubt , that if the school children involved in the abusive behaviour, will say to prospective employers, "that rule you want me to follow is draconian, so "f" off and stuff your job".
Jamie do you think that peformers lack discipline? thats to the contrary, the students can express themselves when performing . Not by acting up at the school gates to impress their mates.
The Head is in charge of the school not the school children, the behaviour displayed by parents and their children does nothing but re-inforce peoples conceptions of the"Vale"
That type of parenting , matches the description of the parent/s, who march into school, to sort out the teacher who "picked" on my son/daughter, and boy will they regret it. -A fine example / role model, they should congratulate themselves, oh but they already do , most likely when they are in the pub , bragging about how the teachers nearly s**t themselves. -----nice

Let's deal with facts please Sally and not hypothetical extremes.

Sending children home because their shoes are not "right" is absolutely ridiculous and those parents who protested should be proud that they stuck up for their belief and didn't simply let the authority impose its pathetic rules onto children.

Jamie with respect ,I am an adult and have the right to express myself as I wish , hypothetically or not. Also I feel I did deal mostly with the facts.
Those parents throwing eggs at teachers are pathetic , they make life harder for their own children , it's not that long ago kids who went to school in expensive trainers were targetted by bullies, the trainers were nicked, and when the kids got home , the whole saga had to be told to parents.
Let the parents who wont provide their children with the appropriate uniform , take their little darlings to a non uniform school, and leave the rest of the school in peace.
By the by it does say in the comments (made by the parents) , parents were contacted before the children were sent home, one parent was at work, who after a phone call , then went and bought the correct shoes, their child then went back to school.

Sally you stated " when it comes time for their kids to attend job interviews, because I have no doubt , that if the school children involved in the abusive behaviour, will say to prospective employers, "that rule you want me to follow is draconian, so "f" off and stuff your job".

There is nothing factual about that, just opinion and prejudice.

The worst possible lesson a child could learn is to NOT challenge authority. I do not want to live in a world full of grey-suited clones who fall in line because they have been told to. Leave that to the Chinese.
I want a vibrant world full of children thinking for themselves and challenging old ways and I want schools without the 'one size fits all' mentality and one where each child is valued for what they bring to the class rather than what is imposed on them from above.

Change only happens when enough people challenge old orders and it starts in the classroom and home. Teach a child to conform to social standards and you simply enforce old power relations and support the institution through maintaining its structures.

Allow a child to find their own way through life and you empower them to think for themselves.

I am off the the council house with 2 dozen eggs who's coming with me Asda have the eggs on offer today LOLOLOL

Trojax

I'd pay you £5 if you could bounce a few off Herr Albert Bores Bonce Trojax

You could not be more wrong. School uniforms were conceived as being necessary in state schools to mask the differences between pupils from poor homes and those from better off homes. The very opposite of elitism.

Well the school did have another option. Don't send them home. Easy enough to do, I think.

The story doesn't establish who actually threw the eggs.

However the story does establish that the kids were sent home with little regard to what would then happen to them if there parents weren't in.

It is an absurd over-reaction and a wholly distorted set of priorities.

It's also quite ironic reading individualistic Tories on here demanding conformity and uniformity and the authoritarian enforcement of that conformity and uniformity.......a bit of a selective belief in freedom, perhaps?

I can see the arguments for having school uniforms, considering the environment and wealth disparities that exist in any school, but the idea that the response we've seen here is appropriate is laughable. A few people who have commented on this thread need to go back and actually read the story.

I think there are two separate discussions here that have been conflated. One is a more general philosophical argument about school uniforms (which isn't cut and dried, as you are correct to point out) and the other is regarding the circumstances around this school (where the head has behaved ridiculously and caused a massive problem with her infantile, irresponsible Victorian-era moralising).

school uniform is an emotive subject always has been but these new academies are making it worse. Look at Q4 the old dartmouth schools makes pupils wear a suit like uniform because it sets them up for the world of work.

I HAVE NEVER WORN A SUIT FOR WORK

Our place two years ago said we did not have to wear ties

Then my old sixth form at school then decided that their pupils should weare office like uniform to set them up, how about those who never want to work in offices ??

It is a nonsense now trying to tie pupil into an old fashioned vision of what work used to be.

Jamie, I feel that you are misguided, when you advocate for school children to be left to govern themselves, have you seen some of the housing estates where young people , refuse to attend school at all, they are challenging society alright, but are not contributing any thing to it. Those young people challenge every thing respect nothing, mostly due to lack of positive role models and quality interaction with adults.
Yes, what you quoted me saying was my opinion, based on, several years of working with children and young people, who have become known as "challenging". I can tell you the reason these kids became challenging,- through inadequate parenting. These same parents threw their hands up , and said "you " the "local authority" have to do something with him/her cause I cant.
The main reason most children get up on time, attend and do well at school is because they are loved, supported and kept safe by their parents, time enough to challenge the establishment/status quo, at college and uni.
How dare you say I am prejudice, because I dont believe in the Lord of the Flies ethos you find so refreshing. In your dream world the children wouldn't have guidence, they would go to bed when they liked, attend school when they got there , no routines or time tables , the old order gone, well good luck with that.
Dont even bother to say I am brain washed or indoctrinated because of my , age or up bringing, because as I have said before I was raised "in care" by people indifferent to my "care" needs, which I was reminded of weekly, (pay day).
Another thing I can say is a school uniform is not elitist, it is equalising, without a uniform (at least in secoundary school), it is all about what a child wears, and is a real headache for parents, and far more expensive.
Think now I will join Trojax and Devilsadvocate, I will pass the eggs guys

The idea that a child is 'conforming' and can't be an 'individual' unless they can where what they like is very old-fashioned. Back to the Sixties.

no your attitude is like that, the attitude that says somehow only one form of work is worthwhile.

our competitor countries with so called better education systems do not rely on uniforms. And these uniforms are not cheap at all for those on little money as a lot of people would be.

Eh? When did I say that? My views are ahead of our time.


Better or 'so-called' better? Tricky one isn't it, Ian. Obviously there are far better systems but you'd be admitting that your lot failed if you fessed up to the obvious. Schools nor education systems 'depend' on uniforms .

We're talking about Castle Vale here, an area I know well and not far from the sink comp I attended. Rigorously enforced uniform rules are entirely the right sort of discipline that should be imposed on pupils. With the reaction to today's events it would appear that any form of discipline (or self restraint) is sadly lacking at home. God help us if this is the example being set by parents.

Only boheme of Kings Heath disagrees.

I'm sure I'd feel differently I if I was lucky enough to inhabit Shangri La rather than the real world.

what is asked for is a rational reaction ...

not send loads home but send letters, call parents in to explain the reasons rationale behind the new rules and give them say two weeks to comply.

I've had a few long chats with a couple of head teachers on uniform, both, though one more than the other, saw non-conformity with the dress code as a discipline issue not to be glossed over. The reasons have been covered:-

- It's a leveller. Kids can't bully kids for having the wrong brand of x,y or z when you're not allowed branded goods and everyone has the same kit.
- You don't have the BS of having to sort out the inevitable thefts of prestige brand trainers, jackets etc.
- It can foster a sense of community and pride (a lot of other things about a school need to be in place before that argument works, but if they are, I suppose it does)
- Kids actually behave better off site in the community when they're clearly identifiable as belonging to a certain place (I.e. they know they're easy to trace and that modifies behaviour)
- One of the Heads also strongly believes that having a work-like attention to appearance, and having a smart uniform (with equally strict expectations on teachers work clothes) actually makes the culture of the school go up a notch in focus which is then reflected in behaviour, and then in turn in attainment.

For me, the Jury is out on that last point (I deliberately have no dress code at my business and although I am very often suited I will never, ever, ever wear a tie. Not for funerals, not for clients, not for the mother-in-law, not for Board meetings, not even for Heads of State)

But I accept the first three points totally, and also accept that a Head has to be given the chance to build the culture they believe will see their pupils thrive. Going nuclear on apparently trivial matters of uniform actually sets a bar of what is acceptable. Kids will push boundaries because that is what kids do. Far better it's a low boundary that they can get their naughty kudos for crossing, than a high boundary where they may stumble over the line to something criminal before they feel any consequence of their personal choices.

Why should you have to repeat yourself?

Why should anyone take any notice the second time if they couldn't be bothered the first time?

Why should you have to explain the rationale behind the rules? They're the rules. Life's full of rules. Mine is anyhow. The only people who struggle with rules are generally those with no self discipline.

who says the rules are wrong, I would agree in principle that shoes should be worn (in this example) too many schools have gone too far in having suit like uniforms though.

It is the response to rule breakers that has to be rational

Bugger that. Better to use the big stick. Shock and awe Gordon Ramsey-style - the only tactics these parents will understand.

It's entirely rational.

1. Here are the rules.

2. Breaking the rules will not be tolerated.

3. This is the penalty for breaking the rules.

Where's the irrational bit? I'll give you a clue - it involves eggs.